In certain ways, we had similar upbringings, i had a loving home and did all right in school. He didn’t. But because [of my blindness], I also had a hard time learning in school and was teased, as he was… We were able to talk to each other and share our anxieties… We also liked fishing. He was an avid lover of fishing as am I.

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He kind of used us to see what he would have to do to keep some of his Australian women -- and later the English women, how he could keep them in the United States. So more or less, he went along with it. He didn’t really like Elizabeth that much. Because Elizabeth would tell him to his face if she thought he was doing something wrong… I guess he was also hoping I would take an interest in someone else. But in the end, he went along with it because he needed to see how the immigration process worked.

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Koresh and I were at odds, so he was going to head to Texas. He ordered me to come to Texas to receive my punishment because I was opposing him. So I packed my bags and everybody assumed I was going to Texas to do what Koresh had ordered me to do, but I never showed up. Eventually, I went to Australia. So in the end, Elizabeth being in Australia worked out because I had a place to go.

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